Interview: “Ode to the Black Girl Group Chat” with Cynthia Manick and Anastacia-Reneé

In an industry where we are so often pitted against one another, we crave community. We crave spaces where we are heard, seen, loved. Especially for BIPOC writers in the world, systems are stacked against us. We’re taught to be competitive and abrasive and solitary. But it doesn’t have to be this way. In this interview, Cynthia Manick and Anastacia-Reneé unravel how they navigate this world that is so often against us. The Black Girl Group Chat is a safe haven. Something to aspire towards. Who are we if not each other’s community? They share with us a new kind of blurb, a softness we should have towards ourselves, and an encouragement to seek out people who can support you. Who can lift you up. Who can love you. 

–Jessica Nirvana Ram

Ode to the Black Girl Group Chat: An Interview with Cynthia Manick and Anastacia-Reneé

“I once saw Anastacia solve a rubix cube in 3 minutes. She did some type of moon dance and bam it was done!! If her book has that type of magik, I gotta have it.”

        -Joe, stepbrother of magician David Copperfield and part-owner of Bombas Socks

“Cynthia Manick has worked harder than any game changer I know. She also has 8 extra hands & 5 brains & that’s why she’s the queen of multitasking. If you need a game changing multitasking super being call Cynthia Manick (but not till she’s back from vacation).”

       -Manicurist of 8 extra hands

Anastacia: One of the reasons why I've enjoyed our "fictitious" and humorous celebratory blurbs of each other is because I have felt that sometimes we are not seen. Or we are not seen correctly. Or we are seen in bits and pieces. Or one of the bits or pieces is seen as our whole OR hole. Why have you/do you enjoy our blurb love language?

Cynthia: I think we originally started doing the blurbs to lift each other up. Our books were coming out a month apart from Amistad, there was a HarperCollins writer’s strike, and with a lot of things out of our control – internal language was the one thing we could control. I think we are seen but not all of our parts stay visible; not all of our parts are “camera ready”. As a BIPOC artist, you write the book with unicorn blood,  I mean years of craft and heart, you find a fantastic publisher who believes in the work, but then no one talks about what happens next. In the media we see writers either writing furiously, they’re on stage performing, or you see their professional author photo.  Our blurb love language shows the in-between states and those states are funny, busy, goal oriented, chaotic, and sometimes just appreciates the little things. 

Anastacia: EXACTLY. Even as adult Anastacia, I imagined after I’d done a TEDx talk, gotten a two-book-deal on a big five, and moved to “the greatest city in the world,” NYC that surely, surely I would be an underground household name, become a written “influencer” or be able to afford to go on vacation once a year. The blurbs though– are like mini front page news covers, mini talk show host guests and sometimes even mini vacations! 

Cynthia: When you think of the phrase “published author” – what does that look like to the world and how does it compare to reality? Imagine a Behind the Music episode, what pops into frame?

Anastacia: When I was in high school I think it really sort of hit me that the people writing the books were actually people with real lives. I had this dreamy idea that a published author worked diligently from an old school typewriter and typed furiously for hours and hours and hours—and then after that poof! That writer sweating over keys was automatically on Good Morning America being interviewed on their work and then on 60 Minutes and then on Phil Donahue talking about the book. Am I dating myself? I had no idea there would be days when a writer agonized over ONE DAMN SENTENCE or how to push through despite a migraine or injury for fear that their career might be ended if they were not a middle aged white man who produced mediocre work. I had this g-rated idea of success and then I found that there are some “adult material” moments which are stressful and on occasion traumatic. BUT—the truth is, I am not meant to be anything else. So I will take the struggle with the beautiful. 

Cynthia: Yes, I always think of the writing montages where the writer is on an Olympia typewriter, the old school keys are going, a cup of coffee that is mysteriously refilled (by a significant other or fairy) is in hand, then bam a book is done, and cue the bookstore window where multiple copies are on display. Most writers will have a different Behind the Music trajectory. I just wrote a poem where I spent 20 minutes looking up synonyms for the word “city”! The published author’s life isn’t automatic. For me it's shuffling poems, sticky notes on the reader’s copy of No Sweet Without Brine, multiple emails, rushing to catch the 6am Amtrak or flight to a location, meeting great people (some folks will buy books and some won’t), the adrenaline release post-performance, and then it’s making sure the honorarium arrives to pay the bills. 

Cynthia: We've been doing our blurbs since November 2022. When you think of them and the Black Girl Group Chat, where and when has it helped you the most? 

Anastacia: They help me in numerous ways but one of my favorite things to do is to reread them when I need assurance that I am OK. I am wonderful. I have unseen talents and skills and most importantly—I am not a Black woman writing in the world alone. 

Anastacia: What’s your favorite blurb and why?

Cynthia: My favorite blurbs are also the ones that make us cackle and don’t take themselves too seriously, so I’m going to share two. For authors, blurbs are meant to give the public a sense of what your book is about and that you’re part of a literary tradition. But it can be soooo stressful because you have to decide who to ask, can they connect with the work, and do they have the capacity. So I like blurbs created by fictional people who aren’t famous because it shows that anyone can enjoy the work and its author – from animals to the relatives of a famous person.

“Cynthia Manick knows how to multitask & wear so many different hats & wraps she’s completed everything you have in your planner for the year by yesterday.”

        -Sloth aspiring to be Cynthia

“Anastacia will walk miles for coffee?! Which means she’s focused, goal-oriented, and has great sneakers. I gotta get that book.”

        -Waitress Sandra Lopez, a 4x removed cousin of TV host Mario Lopez

This is my second favorite because if you’re on a book tour and spend the night at a hotel, 8 times out of 10, TV personality Mario Lopez will be on the hotel channel. I’ve seen those freaking dimples in multiple states.  I’d love for his “fictional” cousin to support poetry.

Cynthia: Wait, what’s your favorite?

Anastacia: I am so horrible and maybe too Libra + Aquarius because I love all the blurbs! They are like their own cosmic burst of goodness for just the right occasion. If we could list them all like an index– I would! The ones I like the best are the ones where I read it and go “Oh my goodness, she knows me!”

Anastacia: Our blurbs are hilarious and also a sense of our own permission to praise ourselves and each other. Why don't you think this is occurring as much as it should in the industry?

Cynthia: I think women have always been taught to be humble, to not shine too big, or talk too loud. Let’s not cause a ruckus by recognizing our hard work. But there’s also this assumption that giving shine to one person takes it from another. As if the table we’re all sitting at, can’t expand. Why is there a default competition between Nicki Minaj and Cardi B? We should be able to praise them equally and the same can be said for the publishing industry. Lastly, sometimes literary work has a sense of solemness and elevation to it, like it's above things like camaraderie. But I see little pockets of that praise in group chats, on festival panels, in IG live interviews, and in the books people teach in their creative writing classes. 

Anastacia: If you could give your publishing experience a color, number and flavor what would it be?

Cynthia: Why do we end up asking each other these deep questions! Okay: 

Color: Turmeric

Number: 5.  I once heard a child say they were turning 5, and it was “a whole hand!”

Flavor: the Muffuletta sandwich I had in New Orleans. It was a hodgepodge (cured meats, olive oil, provolone, mozzarella, chopped olives & more) of messy and unforgettable flavors. Sometimes the Muffuletta is a delicious adventure, sometimes it's not.

Cynthia: Following that same vein, how would you rate the Black Girl Group Chat, ours or in general?

Anastacia:  Color: Grandmother's favorite holiday-hurry-up-and-cook red

Number: 3 because since I was younger and heard the Schoolhouse Rock song “Three is a magic number,” I have always thought and felt it was magical. Plus–some for real magical things have indeed happened to me in the order of 3’s. 

Flavor: Homemade buttered rolls 

Cynthia: Buttered rolls or buttered biscuits? Each one is a different level of love and effort

Anastacia: Well, on my mom’s side of the family definitely homemade buttered rolls but on my father’s side of the family biscuits and beignets.

Cynthia: Book publishing is a competitive field with everyone chasing the gold ring. As press mates- how have we managed to avoid that collective competitive space?   

Anastacia: Hmmm this is a hard one because I think 15 years ago, in general, I maybe should have been MORE competitive with other writers. I have always been on a race with myself. With my last best thing I wrote. My last book. My last talk. My last curation. To that end in the past I have busted doors wide open for some while watching them surpass me because they have been in subconscious competition with others. I’m not saying I am laid back but I am the cheer person for all of “us.” So it’s easy to be happy, excited, and even pushy sometimes around your work. I genuinely want you to get all that you deserve and more. I think the other part of that is that we both work so hard all the time that we are too busy to be in competition with each other! Lol. Who has time to compete when we are both running 15 races? I also think it has been important for us NOT to compare each other or be in competition because the industry will (perhaps even not realizing it) compare us because we are two Black women writers and sometimes—the industry can only pick one at a time. One “it person.” One “shining star.” Once I realized this I made an even bigger effort to counteract that deeply embedded industry trap that I have seen countless times in the art, writing, theater and music world. 

Cynthia: That’s a good point about competitiveness – is innate or learned?  With your former work as a Seattle Civic poet and my former work with Soul Sister Revue, we tend to connect people. I love seeing people shine, especially when I know how hard they’ve worked. And who has time to be giving side-eyes when I got work in the morning, you’re teaching in a different time zone, we’re both writing, trying to clean our apartments, and check on loved ones. But like the Lord of the Rings, “the one ring” trope is a real issue in a lot of industries, especially writing. I think we successfully combat this with you telling me that X festival is open for submissions, me deciding to apply for a writing residency and putting you down as a reference, you pushing me to outline the next book, me encouraging you to rest when your body needs it, and of course the 1am group chat. I think there are Black Girl Group Chats all over the world probably spilling tea and encouragement. 

Anastacia: I agree! I think for me the somewhat privacy of our “worlds” is important. I may not want to blast on social media that my body is tired, my mind is tired, I want all my family members to be okay AND I am craving spicy cheese popcorn + racism tried to choke me out. BUT those are things I would feel safe enough to share in the Black Girl Group Chat or tell you about and then a blurb might form and that can add whip cream to my not-so-fresh kind of coffee day. Plus, I am not sure how they did it, but you know the ancestors had secret chats full of tea and humor despite all harshness of reality. 

Cynthia: Agreed. I think Black women have always found little ways to be there for each other. I’m thinking of Black women doing hair in the backroom and in kitchens where more than hair is discussed. On social media and at literary events things are polished and you don’t see the “before” pics and “later that night” actions (which could be wild!). So people don’t imagine that Black women in the literary industry want and appreciate a deeper community connection. Looking at us, you wouldn’t think how often we write poems in the early am while simultaneously writing rent checks and being annoyed about this or that microaggression. 

Cynthia: Any advice on how Black girls should bridge that connection?

Anastacia: My advice to Black girls is to begin evaluating and observing (not judging) your mind, body and spirit and asking three important questions: Who do you genuinely like to to talk to? Who makes you laugh? And lastly, who is a good listener? 

Cynthia: When you find those people, let them get to know your humor, digital dance moves, and literary talent. Don’t be afraid to laugh with a good meme or gif. The world constantly asks Black women to present themselves in certain ways but rebel against that. Let’s create communities that encourage all parts of ourselves. 

About Cynthia Manick

Cynthia Manick is the author of No Sweet Without Brine (Amistad-HarperCollins, 2023), which received 5 stars from Roxane Gay, was named among the “Best Poetry of the Last Year” by Ms. Magazine, and was selected as a New York Public Library Best Book of 2023. She is the author of Brown Girl Polaris (a Belladonna chaplet), editor of The Future of Black: Afrofuturism, Black Comics, and Superhero Poetry; winner of the Lascaux Prize in Collected Poetry; and author of Blue Hallelujahs. Manick has received fellowships from Cave Canem, Hedgebrook, MacDowell, and Château de la Napoule among other foundations. Her poem “Things I Carry into the World” was made into a film by Motionpoems and has debuted on Tidal for National Poetry Month and her work has also featured in VOICES, an audio play by Aja Monet and Eve Ensler’s V-Day. She lives in New York but travels widely for poetry.

About Anastacia-Reneé

Anastacia-Reneé (She/They) is a queer writer, educator, interdisciplinary artist, playwright, former radio host, TEDX speaker, and podcaster. She is the author of (v.) (Gramma/Black Ocean), Forget It (Black Radish); Sidenotes from the Archivist (HarperCollins/Amistad),and Here in the (Middle) of Nowhere (HarperCollins/Amistad). Side Notes From The Archivist was selected as one of “NYPL Best Books of 2023,” and,The American Library Associations (RUSA) “Notable Books of 2024.” Anastacia-Reneé is a recipient of the James W. Ray Distinguished Artist Award and, she was selected by NBC News as part of the list of "Queer Artist of Color Dominate 2021's Must See LGBTQ Art Shows," for “(Don’t Be Absurd) Alice in Parts” an installation at the Frye Art Museum. Anastacia-Reneé served as Seattle Civic Poet (2017-1019) during Seattle’s inaugural year of UNESCO status. Her work has been anthologies and published widely.